The citizen's look is being iterated on. This is a controversial change and I know a lot of you guys will be shocked about it. 

You can still edit them to get the sausage neck back.. and you can change the eye color.

We are going to keep iterating on the citizen's design. The old design is very polarising.. and even though I like that look, and am used to it.. I think we would be stupid to ignore that fact. If we can make a few tweaks to make it more desirable and more liked, then we will.

Long term, if nothing we do helps, we will have to drop the citizen all together and just make human only models. That's definitely something that could happen, but we're not at that point yet, I'd like us to keep iterating a bit more before we bury them.

LEAVE MY GOAT ALONE

Looking good, I don’t think dropping citizens is needed as people can chose if they will use them when creating games, only add ability to switch them in sandbox mode.

looks like someone grabbed terry by the throat and pressed real hard

which sounds about right

 

This is what people get for complaining about sausage people all the time, we get even uglier sausage people.

The concept is kinda cool, but it feels like a strange blend of cartoonish and realistic styles. The skin should have less detail, and the iris and pupil need to be smaller. 

It needs to be purely cartoon style!

I should still play around with the skin texture a bit more. The stretching on the neck and the wrinkles don't quite fit with the Deformer.

cool

I got kinda used to them and have a soft spot for them, but I can see the reason for the redesign. If I can still rock the sausage look I will happily do so.

Not trying to shamelessly plug my game, but for the game jam I submitted a game called "Humans VS Sausages TD" and didn't expect that to be obsolete so soon :D

Dear garry, what do you think about SLIGHLY reducing the distance between the eyes (Maybe a little smaller than in photo)? I don't think this change would significantly affect over existing glasses items, but it should definitely improve the character's appearance. I don't think adjusting the neck is the only solution

 They’re still too gross, they’re not cool. You can’t feel like a badass with faces like that. Its still possible to have cool-looking characters without making them generic. Right now they just look like Lovecraftian fish people.

posted this in discord already, but i'd be more open to the citizen changes if we could also change the eye shape. not a fan of doll looking eyes when they're oversized.

When is facepunch going to come to the realization that the sbox platform is doomed unless they actually make the changes players want instead of whatever this is. Theres a reason the launch flopped so hard.

These new ones can definitely fit some games alot better but look to stylized and look something like what would be what you call the alien people of a random simulation game.

This will most likley just be another chapter untill garry eventually realized terry isnt the move and hopefully does what the general playerbase actually wants. Which goes with this entire game, I mean I dont know why allowing things hated by the general population such as ai thumbnails would ever be allowed or thinking that shit tycoon games will be weeded out on there own. 

Have you seen the game your literally trying to copy? Roblox is full of AI Thumbnails and Slop games and its one of the biggest issues in that game.

I think the change is good but I also think terry's general aesthetic was based in an dated cartoon style that's not popular anymore. A lot of things are made with lower skin detail and anime proportions now a days.

Also "mario if he real" was the first thing that came to mind looking at the new design.

It reminds me of either that or those old collector bisque dolls.

Terry is already recognizable as s&box mascot and has it uniqueness. 
You definitely shouldn't change him into "DLSS5 version of lego character" in favor to cry babies who doesn't dig his vibe. They will cry anyway.
Without our sausage buddy the platform will lose part of its charm, and the iteration that you've shown is already more controversial.
New model with its soft body adjustments despite new features will encourage people in making freaky looking characters and force you to ditch stylized model completely. 
I believe that you can add more customization features to old Terry without him losing his known features.

Anyway, Terry's visual style is NOT a problem that need to be solved - many games use human models or their own characters instead.

Every time I have ever seen someone talk about sbox on a different game or even just when I try to talk about it with people irl someone always says they "don't like the hotdog people" or "the characters are ugly". I'm not being hyperbolic, someone always says this. Even if most developers don't use the citizen characters its still a problem just because of that. Maybe facepunch needed to better communicate to players the hotdog people aren't in all games. A lot of people still have misconceptions about what sbox even is, but that's just what I've seen personally.

 Worse advice is coming from people saying everything is fine and Terry is fine,  when like a third of the Steam reviews are people complaining about Terry, and every week there are people on Reddit complaining about Terry.

Games aren’t the problem anymore. There are a bunch of games now, and almost zero AI thumbnails left. The only thing left is a visual rebrand with cool characters. 

The issue is that the models are ugly, not that they're literally sausage shaped. Slapping rubber bands on their neck isn't going to fix that. I know human models exist but they STILL don't work properly with cosmetics that change your head like the brain jar or crash test dummy.
Maybe some effort should be put into those models instead of doubling down and pinching your sausage?

Every time I've tried to introduce sbox to a friend of family, EVERY time, they're immediately turned off by the sausage people.

1. The skin is too realistic and gross.
2. All the cosmetics and general direction is just: "Dirty and Abandoned". Fucking why?? If the initial idea was to be different and standout from other platforms, I think it SEEMS like a good idea but sadly it simply isn't a working one. 

So cheers to Garry for being open to iterating on Terry. Hell yeah.

I've always liked the sausage men models, as they do exactly what I think they were intended to do; be unique and stand out. That being said, these changes honestly look great. The one major thing I think that still leaves a lot to be desired is citizen viewmodels/hands. The oversized, large hands make modelling first person games using them feel disconnected, since the current go-to hands are standard human hands. If you've tried using the Facepunch weapons with the citizen hands you'll know what I mean as the proportions just don't work.

At first I reacted very negatively to this idea, I thought, well, this is worse than the old version. At the same time, I’m a Terry fan, and I didn’t understand why people hated him. And people with no experience in character creation couldn’t really explain it, they just had this uncanny valley effect and that was it.

I asked people with experience, and they said:

Now Garry has fixed this, and I think we started complaining mostly because we were used to the old version of Terry. But what do I see here? A ton of customization options, and that’s the key to success. Yeah, now everyone is going to get angry again because of the Disney-like character, big eyes, and so on, but I’m sure that’s temporary. And this is genuinely OBJECTIVELY better than the old Terry.

Let's wait for the update and give the new version of Terry a chance, then we’ll see. I’m sure there will be even more customization options, and we’ll be able to make the kind of Terry we actually want!

The platform is dead right now and your worried about it losing its charm. One of the main complaints people give to the game why they arent trying it, or moved on quickly is the sausage model... I dont get the cope.

I also dont even hate terry on its own and think the model looks good. and he doesnt even need to be removed, but remove him from marketing atleast, and give human models more love and making them the main playermodels is a huge step to actually getting players.

Also while sbox compared to gmod will have more than just fps stytled games, I still personally think the majority of games will be realistic first person games where 90% of players will want high quallity human models rather than stylzed characters.

YES, SCREW YOU ALL, YES FINALLY!!!! YESSSS!!!!!! YEESSSSSS

Hurry up and delete Terry—a lot of people I know have stopped playing S&Box because of him. The way he responds to Terry is just gross.

I'm not the biggest fan of the changes (they will probably grow on me), but I am concerned with considering removing them altogether when there are already human models?

What is stopping you from shifting marketing and screenshots to use the human models? Why can't you swap the default model to human and make the citizen opt-in, like how you need to opt-in to a human at the moment?

I imagine a lot of the complaints are from a very specific subset of people who are buying s&box to play the Sandbox mode - why not let the Sandbox mode use the human or citizen models based on player choice? (last I checked, Sandbox will always uses Citizen regardless of what you pick) I would think that this alone is probably the cause of a lot of negative feedback. If people could choose to play as a human in the Sandbox mode, it would be much less of an issue, more so if they were the default choice. 

I feel like if you really want to concede and showcase human models to address bad reviews, you can just make the humans the front and center of s&box like the Citizen is now. Removing it completely feels like a very nuclear option when it doesn't need to be.

Terry is perfect just the way that he is; if I show Terry to people that don't even play s&box they ask me "isn't that the gmod2 mascot?" and while yes this isn't gmod2 technically, it's the most unique thing about the project. I would not change it because of a vocal minority, those people do not want the best for the project. They will be the ones cheering if it dies tomorrow. 

GIGA terry could be a move